Author Topic: failed air care  (Read 1093 times)

Offline Marke Bailey

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failed air care
« on: October 04, 2004, 09:15:17 pm »
have a 92 talon turbo auto.

went to aircare today and failed on all the tests. the hydrocarbons reading was 0.8153 (0.500 max) the carbon monoxide reading was 15.2227 (9.32 max) and the nitrogen oxides was 2.1283 (1.24 max)

can anyone direct me on what I need to fix. I think I need to do the cat. converter, or maybe the whole exhaust. and I think there will be other stuff. There are no check engine lights, so as far as I knew the car was fine. HELP!
The Sleepy Slushbox.

"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

Offline John Hartman

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failed air care
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2004, 10:05:47 pm »
Seems like its a bit rich is all.

flush your injectors, put in new plugs, get your timing set, put in a new air filter(fuel filter would be a good idea too), and clean out your throttle body.

then go for some good runs on the hiway.

There is also a large screw on the bottom of your mass airflow sensor that is covered with silicone.  It involves removing the aircan, and taking the MAF out of the aircan, and then picking out all that silicone.  If you do that, then just back that screw out a few turns, and maybe even take the lower honeycomb out.  This WILL lean your car out, but our cars are really quite rich from the factory.

It might idle poorly for a few miles but it should clear up.  If all goes well, you will have better throttle response, better mileage and better aircare results.

If that doesn't do it, a new cat would be a good idea too.

There are lots of other things to do, but they all cost money and you have to find a reputable shop to do it.

I work beside 2 great guys that do this sort of thing all day, air care fails, lack of powers, etc,so alot of it kinda rubs off.

If none of the simple things solve it, you might want to have the EGR looked at, along with having a decarbonization done.

If you had access to a good shop, you can put the car on the hoist and hit the exhaust pipe before the cat with an infrared pyrometer and see the temp and then hit it after.  Big change, cat is lit off and good, no change, or small one, time for a new cat.

Also, you can make a blockoff plate for your EGR and see if that helps.


Best of luck man, I'm just throwing out a few possibilities here.  These things can take time.  But maybe you will get lucky and just some basic maintainance will clear it up for ya.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Andrew Scott

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failed air care
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2004, 11:33:30 pm »
Running too rich wouldn't cause him to fail NOx would it?
Parked: 1989 240sx - Esso 87 octane, Superstore generic 10w30, Japanese automatic climate control, Pioneer AVIC-Z3 navagation, Tien Flex Coilovers, Poly bushings, R34 Brakes (front and rear), Cusco tri-point strut braces (front+rear), 1998 tail lights, rear+side valance, adjustable toe and camber arms, cusco sway bars, helical rear diff, Volk TE37s - For sale!
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Offline Mike Schmid

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failed air care
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2004, 02:16:03 pm »
I would take a good look at the cat if it's stock exhaust.  A '92 is 12 years old already, cats don't last forever, especially when you run them rich all the time.  It's probably all hella clogged up and burnt out and whatever.  Especially when everything is over the limit.  

A new free flowing cat and a catback will really wake the car up too  :)
DSMs - fun when they run

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'93 TSi AWD - 195bhp
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Offline John Hartman

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failed air care
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2004, 05:15:00 pm »
Andrew, no it won't but a plugged up EGR valve sure will :)

Mike, yea that would be great, and probably will be all he needs.  Buuuut, if he needs to do that other maintainace, no time like the present ;)
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Kevin Standeven

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failed air care
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2004, 05:33:31 pm »
If you're just having trouble with the idle part of the test, then adjust your idle so it's low, say 600-650. Worked for me :)
97 Talon AWD

Currently under the knife...

Offline Matt Demick

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failed air care
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2004, 05:39:36 pm »
Do what John says and also keep ur car running in line with a few revs every once and awhile. keep that Cat nice and hot, always helps
0' Eagle Talon TSI AWD, JDM 4G63 6/4 Bolt,DSM LINK, X-treme FMIC, 16G/20G Hybrid, Tial BOV, MBC @22psi, 255 Walbro, GM Maf, 680 injectors, WEB 264 Cams, SS Header, 2.5" TurboBack with O2 Elliminator, Tail 38mm External Waste Gate, Fidanza flywheel, ACT 2600 race clutch, and Fidanza Race Shifter

Offline Marke Bailey

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failed air care
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2004, 07:16:31 pm »
ok. the car has a few of the free mods that are on the vfaq.

removed BCS, cut open the air can, removed the silencer and lower honeycomb, backed off the silicone screw, K&N filter. stock exhaust.

I'm sure It'll be at least the cat, but if I'm going to hack into the exhaust I am gonna put in a full free flowing one. turbo back. aircare wants you to spend  $600 to get a conditional pass.

Have an appointment at a shop for the 12th. might even get a 14b and 450's while I'm at it. :D
The Sleepy Slushbox.

"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

Offline Ron Oh

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failed air care
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2004, 08:31:44 pm »
conditional pass is only valid for 3 months now, not 1 year as before

Offline John Hartman

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failed air care
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2004, 08:44:40 pm »
my advice as a guy who works in an aircare shop, don't just spend the money on getting a pass, get the car to pass aircare.  Once you get it passed, you will probably not really have to worry about it again until you get a bit nutzo with the mods.

Plus they won't allow the money for the full exhaust to be used against the $600 conditional pass.  Only parts effecting directly the aircare issues.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Mike Schmid

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failed air care
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2004, 11:42:41 pm »
Quote from: "John Hartman"

Plus they won't allow the money for the full exhaust to be used against the $600 conditional pass.  Only parts effecting directly the aircare issues.


Do they actually check?  I know my dad failed once a few years ago and had to spend some money so he put some new tires on.  

Some other tricks are pull the air filter out (or at least make sure it's clean), vent the pcv to atmosphere and make sure that cat is hot like the other guys said.  Get on the highway at a highspeed cruise (100kmh) for 20 minutes or do a bunch of back to back WOT pulls before you go in then rev to 3000rpm for a few seconds every once in a while when you're in line.
DSMs - fun when they run

'92 TSi AWD AT - 180bhp
'93 TSi AWD - 195bhp
'90 Laser RS NT - *sold*
'71 Camaro - *sold*

Offline Andrew Scott

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failed air care
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2004, 02:11:40 am »
Quote from: "John Hartman"
Andrew, no it won't but a plugged up EGR valve sure will :)



The unfortunate thing about EGR valves is that they only work while the engine is in vac :-/
Parked: 1989 240sx - Esso 87 octane, Superstore generic 10w30, Japanese automatic climate control, Pioneer AVIC-Z3 navagation, Tien Flex Coilovers, Poly bushings, R34 Brakes (front and rear), Cusco tri-point strut braces (front+rear), 1998 tail lights, rear+side valance, adjustable toe and camber arms, cusco sway bars, helical rear diff, Volk TE37s - For sale!
Daily: 2008 BMW M3 DCT

Offline Martin Raska

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failed air care
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2004, 01:07:21 pm »
Quote from: "Andrew Scott"
Quote from: "John Hartman"
Andrew, no it won't but a plugged up EGR valve sure will :)



The unfortunate thing about EGR valves is that they only work while the engine is in vac :-/


Which will pretty much be always the case if you pull the ol' wastegate actuator arm cotter pin.  :)
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Offline Marke Bailey

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Update!
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2004, 11:24:24 am »
well, we got the cat. con. replaced and it passed with flying colors :D

There are a few issues that dont seem right to me tho.  I told the guy that if I had to do exhaust work I wanted to do the whole thing.(02 back) 3"
He informed me later that there was no 3' muffler available for my car from borla or magnaflow(?)  He also said that a 3" is too big for my stock turbo (13G) and that I should do the turbo and exhaust at the same time. His reason on the exhaust is that the turbo will take too long to spool(?) and that it would stumble on acceleration.

Anyone got any other info on this, cause it just dont seem to make sense to me? Does anyone know where I can get a good exhaust system?
The Sleepy Slushbox.

"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

Offline Marty van den Bosch

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failed air care
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2004, 12:51:16 pm »
3" turbo back on a stock 13b is total overkill.

You will lose some low end torque due to less back pressure. I do not know really how much or if it is even that noticable - a 13B guy would have to say.
I disagree with his other points (like spool) however.

If you plan on getting a bigger turbo, you will want to upgrade the exhaust for sure.
But how big?
What size exhaust will depend on how much you plan on upgrading the engine's performance.

For most, a 2.5" mendrel or 3" press will be just fine, but it really depends on your end goal - too small and it may hinder you.
Do not buy small if you plan on doing alot of modding or you will replace it twice.

I went 3" Mendrel with 3" high flow cat and 3" Dynomax muffler (real not hollow) - I run an Evo 16G with one wheel upgraded (20g hibrid)
I am glad I went this route
991 Plymouth Laser FWD
12.0 @ 121.7mph