Author Topic: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|  (Read 1404 times)

Offline kevin derhouson

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Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« on: September 08, 2012, 08:30:31 pm »
car sat for two years :(

i restored it as much as i could.. even with a very harsh abrasive i could only do so much.. it appears that this is a cheap hood and there was some sun damage underneath the clear.

possibly changing the carbon fiber laminated fiberglass a green/brown color.. not much to do other than paint.. this guy wanted to see what i could do with it..

i couldn't take a final picture after sealant as it got too dark when it was time to buff it out.. but you get the idea :)











final picture was taken after compound with polish still applied ready to be wiped off.. big difference though :)

« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 08:36:52 pm by kevin derhouson »
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Offline Kevin Altoe

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 08:45:05 pm »
Nice work there!  Looks good now.
1995 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD

Offline Jordan Kruger

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 08:49:14 pm »
back to life!  :)

just keep polishing it out!  it will go away.
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Offline kevin derhouson

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 08:50:48 pm »
oh i'm done, it looked like a mirror when i was finished :)

i've cut polished/wet sanded a lot of cars, but never with this kind of sun damage before :)
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Offline Paul Pigar

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2012, 09:10:11 pm »
Did u buy another 2g?
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Offline kevin derhouson

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2012, 09:43:32 pm »
nah, friend of a friends car :)
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Offline Zach Holt

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2012, 10:04:03 pm »
Cf parts arnt clear coated. You want a good long lasting product paint it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi
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Offline Allen fong

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 09:22:36 am »
Its probably polyester with a shit load of clear! i'd just wet sand it down don't hit the fibers then spray this on [url]http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/higlosstopcoat.php/[url]

There isn't much uv protection in polyester resin most of it comes from the gel coat or clear. Repeated head cycles and uv radiation attacks the hood and weakens it.

The longer that hood stays in that condition the weaker the bond becomes. Think of your kids plastic toys left outside over the summer faded discoloured and sometimes have lost their shape.

Keep it waxed and out of the sun and protect the inside from heat.

my 2 cents
1993 1G AWD

SOLD:1998 Talon AWD E316G @ 25 psi, EVO 8 ECU with, HKS 272/272 cams, Walbro 255 + rewire, ACT 2100 with street disk, 3" exhaust no cat, Aeromotive FP regulator, EVO 3 Throttle Body, EVO 3 intake mani, 1000cc inj, GM 3bar map, PR FMIC, Aem Truboost, Aem Wideband, Devils Own Meth on progressive controller.

Offline Zach Holt

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 11:14:51 am »
Ok Kevin,

All most every CF companies say as you link states:"For a stunning finish, our products are coated with a glossy clear coat that does not chip or flake" every CF part has this, its a gel coat to level the plane. almost like a clear filler or"bondo for the dumb ones" so that its a paint ready product for said painter/body shop. no one would buy a porous product that needs more work.

These CF products are almost always Polyester resin because its simply the cheapest to buy, little easier to work with, and look the same other then a slight bluish tint. But on black CF no one can tell after its applied in the Manufacturing process. "most people don't know or care."

The Building product: Polyester resin, has NO UV protection and over time yellows, spider webs then flakes. Along with other issues just from drying in general and shrinkage of the Polyester Resin, warpage crackin etc.

Eg: The hood you restored was a Polyester Resin product. "Eg: Was black, and now looks like a Gray/yellowish/brown and unappealing after said work you posted kevin."

Eg: Just because a product is 700 dollars and made but SEIBON doesn't mean its quality. andresse's CF front bumper shelf warped, a 700 dollar product with Polyester resin from "SEIBON" aka the site you linked me to for your self assertiveness.

two simple examples of Polyester resins qualitys.

Many people out there with dull crapy: hoods, belt, mouldings, visers, mirrors, bumpers, doors, hatchs, etc just never painted them with a good clear coat. "PAINT"
 
Epoxy paint clear coats are pretty much the standard auto clear coat. high UV protection, etc. On top as a normal consumer CF product aka Polyester Resin they're very beneficial for the resin to not dry out as quickly. Eg dulling spider webbing yellowing dose not happen any where as quickly, and when it does, D/A it with some 180 blow it off and reclear it. It will look nice and new. Only slightly lighter in colour in comparison to new but, that happens over time to every CF product.

Epoxy Resin is used as well in the consumer auto sector. But pretty much only on high quality rear CF wings and true race seat shells and saftey related items, reason being its stronger and much more flexible before braking on impact. No company cares if their hood didn't save a drivers life. Constant useage of Epoxy Resin is more of a F1 or helicopters kind of deal for all bits and pieces when they are carbon braced or made strickly of CF like 6000 dollar road bike frames.

Now don't get me wrong those rare cases where a company did use Epoxy resin on a hood for the sake of argument,
Yes Epoxy Resin is UV resistant "same job as a clear" , Yes its hard to brake/chip/ with impact forces "Eg real high-end race seats etc", Yes it gives way more depth and contrast to the CF with its transpires like a nice polished gloss clear coat with out painting, "unlike the Poly resin after about a year with its tint and fading characteristics", yes it does not shrink or spider crack at flexion points as badly "if it does crack, it will in just one key point and not spread like a spider web. Then you can be the judge if you don't want it to brake off at 100kmh going in to a walled right corner"

I would clear it just so I wouldn't polish away that amazing Epoxy Resin but only the replaceable coat I added after perches aka a PAINT clear coat. As is recommended by every CF company anywhere ever for longevity of product...

Paint scratchs and chips in shiping, it will end up with bubble wrap marks etc. They dont not paint their products.

Paint is paint, red, blue, white, black, CLEAR, orange, pink, yellow... It all dose the same thing. Coat the product in a protective layer: metal, CF, Horses ass, wall, plastic, what ever it is. Paint will put a coating on it.
Eg
White, metal
Pink, horses ass
Clear, CF
and any other combo you can put together.  
    
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 11:37:56 am by Ryan Coft »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi
Then google.
Then read old postings about it.
Then ask.

Offline kevin derhouson

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 11:18:33 am »
not really :p

if it walks like a duck talks like a duck, have people advertising that it is a duck why would i have any reason to think its anything other than a duck?

have no reason to be embarrassed.. whether its true or false.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 11:21:57 am by kevin derhouson »
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Offline Robert Vorley

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 01:32:02 pm »
Kevin, good job on the restoration, it would have been nice if the light stayed the same to compare, but the difference is still obvious.

Zach, good info.  That has been my experience.  My Seibon hood after a couple of years was having some issues and a professional polish wasn't enough to restore it, that would require a clear over the original gel coat.

My VIS hood and hatch are holding up better than the Seibon did, but my plan was to clear them when they were new (but didn't).  I seem to recall having this discussion with Yan who decided to clear coat his new CF hood awhile back for the reasons Zach is describing. 

Since I damaged my Carbon Creations bumper it is holding up OK, but my plan is to repair it and get it repainted anyway.  Just debating if I will paint all the carbon to match or not. 

I hope Zach is right about the CF wing's using epoxy resin, so far it hasn't faded or started getting funky, but I have seen other brands that were delaminating.

Yes, all the CF manufacturers talk like ducks, and would never lead you to question there quality, until you have bought something from them and you realize they don't walk like ducks.  Personally, I would prefer dry CF but at the prices they charge for wet CF that is only "CF-looking fiberglass", I would hate to think how much they would charge for the real duck, opps, I mean thing!   :D

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Offline John Hartman

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 07:45:27 pm »
well he WAS doing ok till he "stoped"  :D

Good job on the polish up, it looks decent now.

Tho I suspect if it was to be painted now, it may require some sort of chemical treatment to get the polish stuff out of the pores.  Silicone is horrid to have to paint on after.
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Offline CamWeiss

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2012, 10:59:45 pm »
I was going to go on a 'CF parts bloody well don't have clear on them' tirade, but Zach did if for me. Good on ya.

One more reason parts laid up in Epoxy look better over time: Epoxy doesn't post-cure. Polyester does. That's where the product continues to cure, due to heat usually, after it's kicked off and done it's initial 'cure'. As a result the surface shrinks down over whatever texture lies beneath it. It's why your hood, while a bit shinier than before, will never be flat (smooth) and glossy.


If you want a CF product to last, it needs to be cleared or otherwise painted. Clear may be... clear... but it has UV blockers that will help protect against degradation over time.

And Kevin... It would be pretty damn expensive to get a large painted part packaged for shipping in a way that doesn't damage the finish. Nothing could touch the good side - I've had cars before that get marks just from sitting in light plastic.

Objects in mirrors appear to be losing.

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Offline kevin derhouson

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2012, 11:01:44 pm »


And Kevin... It would be pretty damn expensive to get a large painted part packaged for shipping in a way that doesn't damage the finish. Nothing could touch the good side - I've had cars before that get marks just from sitting in light plastic.





not sarcasm.. thank you cam, did not know that.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 11:08:49 pm by kevin derhouson »
She lives.
new build details ---> http://freetexthost.com/hgidu250ql
current awhp: 387

Offline Allen fong

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Re: Don't neglect your carbon fiber hoods :|
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 11:24:10 pm »
I've been working in aviation for over 10 years and managed a composite shop for 4 of those years and I can honestly say if the company says they use clear I'd have no reason not to believe them.

I've fixed the bosses sons carbon fiber hood many times and always wet sanded it and coated it with clear and never had a problem. Then I realized it was less work to just build him a new on using pre-preg carbon with a foam core last time we talked it was still shinny. Anyways who really cares kevin did a great job saving hood.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 11:36:54 am by Ryan Coft »
1993 1G AWD

SOLD:1998 Talon AWD E316G @ 25 psi, EVO 8 ECU with, HKS 272/272 cams, Walbro 255 + rewire, ACT 2100 with street disk, 3" exhaust no cat, Aeromotive FP regulator, EVO 3 Throttle Body, EVO 3 intake mani, 1000cc inj, GM 3bar map, PR FMIC, Aem Truboost, Aem Wideband, Devils Own Meth on progressive controller.