cooling issues....

[Jason Swan]

So I have cooling issues.  They first reared their head on the FVT when I got a coolant CEL (set for 234 via ecmLink) during the climb to the Hope Slide.  Since then have had it throw the CEL when driving to from Kamloops via the Coq.  I figured that the rad - plastic end tanks factory - had seen it's best days and merited replacement and would check the thermostat at the same time.

I got a used mishimoto rad from John (via Jordan) and put that in today.  Also replaced the existing thermostat that I had never checked (195!  honestly, who does that) with a 180 thermostat I had kicking around.

Net result:  it's worse - I threw a coolant CEL driving from Mission to Abbotsford at 80k.  There doesn't seem to be any air in the rad [edit - hmmm.  strike that bit, I just ran through the proper burp procedure as far as I can figure (run car with rad cap off, heat going, top up as level drops and wait until bubbles stop) and ended up adding close to a liter.  Gonna go for a drive now and see what difference it makes.] - I loosened the cap and got a spray of fluid, and it seems to be pushing/pulling fluid from the overflow.  Fan is working - I only have the one as no way to have driver's side fan in place with turbo/fmic and do not have a pusher fan on driver's either. The thing cooled fairly quickly to 216 once parked and after about 10 min idle was around 205.  

I did end up doing about a 50/50 mix of half 50/50 antifreeze and half water with half bottle of water wetter since I had only one jug of coolant handy and no way to go get more.

Is this something that would happen if the different thermostat I threw in is not working?  What about the possibility my water pump has packed in - anyway to figure that one out?

Am I just screwed and I need to get another fan in there somehow?

[Jordan Kruger]

Try water with just water wetter in. One bottle is enough to fight corrosion and water cools better than antifreeze.
Another thing is make sure your fan is spinning at its proper capacity.  When I had this particular problem, it turned out that the fan wasnt coming on.    But you said yours is coming on..   So it might not be moving enough air..
The mishimoto rads give off a ton of heat. And my theory is that the aluminum rads displace so much heat that you need to run a couple fans to keep the airflow moving.  I currently have 2 mishimoto fans that come on at 185 degrees?  I think?
But they seem to be doing an excellent job keeping the temps rock solid.
Think about all that radiant heat that just soaks the engine bay when the car sits there. Sure its being pulled from the motor. But its also trapped in the engine bay. I recommend removing the gasket along the top porion of your hood. It allows airflow to run through the engine bay with less turbulence. Which inturn keeps the engine bay temps down. I noticed a difference when I did that.   Lowell went a step further and ran ducting from the back of his rad and terminated it out the hood.  That is the ultimate way to keep good airflow.

[John Hartman]

yes, make sure the ducting is in place even if its just some foam tape.  if not, the fans just pull the air from beside it, instead of thru the rad.

If there is no change after the burping, I suggest you look at the water pump impeller, or a blockage somewhere in a smaller passage.

if thats not it, possibly the head gasket is on its way out?  It doesn't take many overheats with an aluminum head to slightly warp it.

oh and with your thermostat, put a 195deg back in.  these(and many newer style cars) don't like some of the old school mods like colder thermostats. 

Also the thermostat only controls the minimum temp, and has nothing to do with overheating or max temps.

oh and I only have one stock fan too, no pushers, no drivers side fan, just the stocker on the passenger side.

[Jason Swan]

I'm toying with the idea of replacing the water pump as I don't have an oem one right now but I would hate to do that and find it makes no difference. Other thing I could do is get another fan in their on the drivers side any way I can.  How can I even check for a blockage in coolant passages?

Unsure on the hg - haven't seen any of the signs yet such as coolant in the oil. Guess I should pull the valve cover and check the torque on the head bolts, and perhaps do compression/leak down tests.

Of course I also have a hard deadline of sept 12 that I have to pass airfare by or else park it until airfare dies already as I am currently in my one-time 3 month conditional pass insurance.

[John Hartman]

aircare we can do as long as the engine is good internally.  And that means head gasket too.

I would (when its cold) pull the lower rad hose and back flush it with a garden hose, on high.  Stuff the garden hose in the engine side, and let it flow out the other side.

I would do this both ways on the heater core/hoses too.

Oh and put the 195 thermostat back in.  and make sure the fan has its ducting in place.

Like I said, I have stock rad, stock single fan and no other cooling mods at all. 

[CamWeiss]

Interesting...

What's an acceptable coolant temp range for these cars?

I ask because it's becoming common when I'm autocrossing to get the temp gauge up past the halfway mark after I've finished a run. I'd have to go look at my logs from today, but I think 210-220 is about as warm as it gets.

The rad and t/stat are both fairly recent, about a year or two old. Maybe and aluminum one would make the difference here.

[Jason Swan]

Interesting...

What's an acceptable coolant temp range for these cars?

I ask because it's becoming common when I'm autocrossing to get the temp gauge up past the halfway mark after I've finished a run. I'd have to go look at my logs from today, but I think 210-220 is about as warm as it gets.

The rad and t/stat are both fairly recent, about a year or two old. Maybe and aluminum one would make the difference here.

Cam:

 I definitely have something wrong compared to you since I hit 240 today driving from seven oaks to Costco to home, at city speeds with some stoplights and one hill and maybe one or two bits of boost, total travel time 15-20 min.  I wouldn't dare drive it hard right now. 

Car runs at 210, but when driving almost seems to heatsoak after 15 min or so and the temp starts going up.

I dunno. I think this thing may be about to get really expensive and I'll have to re-evaluate whether it is worth it.

[Allen fong]

Jason, if you have link you should be able to set the fans to come one whenever you wish? with my 98 ecu i have them set at about 190F and 160F with ac on! I'd give that a try and see where your at, then start replacing stuff!

[Jason Swan]

Allen:

The temp keeps climbing with the fan running full tilt unless it is parked in the cool underground garage at my apartment.

The hits keep on coming too - found a puddle of oil this morning that seems to have come from the timing cover.

Really going to have to step back and evaluate what this thing is about to cost me.

Potentially I am looking at:

new OEM water pump
new OEM oil pump
new head gasket
head resurfacing

I just lost my second job that was worth 12 grand a year extra income, so I may just tear this thing down and either part it out or park it for an extended period of time.

[KevinBuckham]

You have a FMIC so you may simply be not getting enough air through the rad at all.  (If you *didn't* have a FMIC, I would guess either coolant system blockage or head gasket issue as the only two likely culprits). 

Assuming the water pump pulley is spinning and isn't making any crazy noises (the bearing is good), I don't see how it could fail on you.  It's a simple set of vanes.  Perhaps someone else has seen them fail however. Anyone? (I've had horrible noises from a bad bearing but it still moved water around.)

I would flush the system as mentioned above and check immediately for head gasket seal issues (compression & leak down test).   Then start sealing everything you can between the FMIC, radiator, and fans.  If the air comes in the front make sure the only path for it is through the radiator.  Does your single fan have a shroud?  Is it sealed to the radiator?

[Dan Harshey]

I have actually seen the vanes on a waterpump basically be eaten away by corrosion.  By not flushing and changing coolant regularly this can happen, as well with age.  Only seen it once, and I'd say it would only happen in extreme cases.

[John Hartman]

impellers often have some issues with erosion or if its a plastic impeller, they get hot and melt.

I don't belive its the fmic. If you are on the edge, maybe it might push you over, but if your cooling system is good, it won't be a problem.  I have never overheated on the Hope Slide, and I have only a stock rad and a fmic.

240 is too hot, but 220 is fairly normal for hard driving.  Cruising should be 190-195.

[CamWeiss]

Good to know re: normal temps.
I'll have to look at my logs and see what they actually are, but I'm very sure it's not hitting 240.
No FMIC and nothing to really block the rad in any way, I think the replacement (jobber) rad that's in the car maybe isn't as good as the original.
Was hoping I wouldn't have to shell out for an aluminum one, and it looks like I get to skip on that one for a while.

[Jason Swan]

240 is too hot, but 220 is fairly normal for hard driving.  Cruising should be 190-195.

hmmmm.  Since I've been logging with ecmLink on that car it's been running at 210-215 - didn't start overheating until the hotter weather came along.

[Jordan Kruger]

You either have a leak  or your fan isnt moving enough air.  Are you sure its being triggered correctly? Is the shroud on your fan still good?