Author Topic: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?  (Read 3224 times)

Offline Ryan Singh

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2010, 01:56:09 pm »
btw Ryan, Never use Mohawk or Husky gas. It burns way to fast. Even in my old Civic hatch back i'd lose 50-80k per tank.
I don't care if you think you're saving a buck or 2 because they offer premium at low grade costs. Youre losing money in the long run.

I just prefer to use those two because they are the cleanest burning...it's got nothing to do with saving money. LOL!
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Offline Remi Raymond

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2010, 02:15:34 pm »
btw Ryan, Never use Mohawk or Husky gas. It burns way to fast. Even in my old Civic hatch back i'd lose 50-80k per tank.
I don't care if you think you're saving a buck or 2 because they offer premium at low grade costs. Youre losing money in the long run.

I just prefer to use those two because they are the cleanest burning...it's got nothing to do with saving money. LOL!

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Offline kevin derhouson

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2010, 06:09:54 pm »
if you burn more of it (which seems considerable), and fueling up more... so that they are drilling more, are you really saving the environment though?
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Offline John Hartman

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2010, 07:20:32 pm »
The part about the Husky/Mohawk gas being less fuel economical is true, because they are all ethanol blended.  Ethanol has less energy per unit than gasoline.

But the part about them drilling more is wrong.  They acually use less gasoline in thier fuels, as they are, as said, ethanol blended, up to 15%. 

And Ryan, on top of your auto tranny, you are accelerating a few hundred pounds of stereo equipment ;)  I'd bet you would get 10%+ better mileage without that in there.  Not that you need to get rid of that or I am judging you on it, I am not, its a great system, but your fuel economy is gonna suffer for it.

And about giving up power for mileage, thats just flat out wrong.  Until you go for big displacement bumps and huge cams, your car does not need to get worse mileage.  In fact the stock tune is grossly rich.  Grossly.  I easily get better mileage than stock.  Honestly I got the best mileage with the MAF and a good chip, but its still very good with the SD setup.  Of course you could tune it really badly and have horrid mileage if you wanted to.


Also if you are on it hard alot, well your mileage will tank (punny guy eh?) huge, but if you drive just normally(not explicitly for mileage either) you can get very good mileage.  Again, not Echo or DumbCar, but considering what it is, (awd, big power performance coupe) the mileage is excellent.

Same goes for emissions.  Same cat in my car for what?  7 years now?  Never ever had even an average reading.  Always way low.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
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Offline Sy Haw Wong

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2010, 11:26:40 pm »
Did a compression test today with the help of Jason Harwood - Thanks again ~  :)

Readings came out to be 190 190 160 190.


The car is definately running filthy rich.  When we pulled the plugs there were a lot of carbon build up on the ends of the plugs, as well as the top of the pistons and rings inside the cylinders.  It was pretty dirty.

Looks like some major maintenance is needed on the car:  

Do a quick test - but probably replace both O2 sensors.
Do a quick test of engine coolant temperature sensor.
Seafoam the car
Change fresh oil and plugs

Don't have a scanner so so far, these will have to do till I am able to get a hold of a scanner (or even a 2G logger) to see if there are any more issues.

Gonna need to find a better description on how to test O2 and coolant temperature sensor.  The Haynes manual is very vague and lame. - If anyone have any links or leads to better info any help would be great.  Thanks in advance.

I feel my car is like a chain smoker clogging her lungs and waiting to die of lung cancer ~  :P
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 12:18:10 am by Sy Haw Wong »

Offline Ryan Dronsfield

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2010, 12:18:03 am »
Did a compression test today with the help of Jason Harwood - Thanks again ~  :)

Readings came out to be 190 190 160 190.


The car is definately running filthy rich.  When we pulled the plugs there were a lot of carbon build up on the ends of the plugs, as well as the top of the pistons and rings inside the cylinders.  It was pretty dirty.

Looks like some major maintenance is needed on the car: 

Do a quick test - but probably replace both O2 sensors.
Do a quick test of engine coolant temperature sensor.
Seafoam the car
Change fresh oil and plugs

Don't have a scanner so so far, these will have to do till I am able to get a hold of a scanner to see if there are any more issues.

Gonna need to find a better description on how to test O2 and coolant temperature sensor.  The Haynes manual is very vague and lame.

hay im in the same bout as you my compression it 180 180 166 189 and is also runs rich  dose yours have a small back fire or mis fire i bought my car off some one who beat the crap out of is so i gess you can say i rescued her lol im trying to cach up on the maintenance a slow and confusing process reorganizing miss arranged vacuum lines and spark plug wires.

mined you my milage isn't as bad as yours i don't think well going though sooke seems to eat alot but still a lil below average.
I do have one question what dose the car idle at dose it idle high if it dose is it an active idle or dose it stay put and after a while of driving dose it go back to normal ?


Offline Jason Harwood

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2010, 10:01:59 am »
I have an OBD2 scanner Sy Haw, you shoulda asked when we were doing this last night :P
88' MX6 Turbo - 14.2 @ 97.51MPH
94' MX6 V6 - 13.9 @ 96.7MPH
93' Civic Turbo - 14.7 @ 90MPH (bad tune)
90' Civic SI - Auto-X Machine
97' Eclipse GSX 13.6 @ 105MPH
96' Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
97' Acura EL 14.5 @ 98MPH
'02 Lexus IS300 15.125 @ 91MPH
97' CR-V Winter Beater.
04' WRB WRX STI

Offline Sy Haw Wong

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2010, 11:15:11 am »
I have an OBD2 scanner Sy Haw, you shoulda asked when we were doing this last night :P

I have a generic OBD2 also.  But mine don't really tell anything but pulls and erases codes - and give pass or fail emission =P.

I was assuming the one that John H. was talking about would be one of those professional grade scanners that logs everything.

If ya have one that can log sensor readings I am down on getting some help again ~  ;)

Ryan D.  - our cars will misfire here and there if its running rich, and things like plugs are getting fouled because of it.  My idle is fine tho.

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2010, 12:45:35 pm »
Sy Haw, a 2g logger or a scan tool that will allow you to read basic sensors is all you need.

The front O2 voltage needs to go both fully low and fully high.  Harder to read on a cheap scanner as it will not update fast enough but you can get the general idea.  If you see min voltages of near 0.1 volt(0.13 etc) and max voltages approaching 1.0, and its steady, you should be fine.  Don't worry about the rear one.  However I say put it in anyways, and put a cat back in, as there is no way its hindering your performance.  Kris R put down 500ish hp at RG with a cat in place.  I saw 335 at one time while tuning, and I know that doesn't sound like much, but I am pretty sure its more than you are making.


As for coolant temp, the scanner or logger will read the ECU coolant temp.  If it says its -25 and you know its +5 outside, you know its fritzed up.  If it says its 7 degrees, but you know the guage on the dash is showing close to full temp, your heater is blowing hot air, and your thermostat housing is too hot to touch, you know its fritzed.  The ECU temp sensor needs to follow the actual temp of the coolant.  So right now it should start at about 5 deg(ish) and steadily climb to about 105 or so(I am not so good at the higher C temp numbers).  If not, its not any good and its a huge part of how the ECU calculates fuelling.  Too cold, and the car will be too rich, period, barring a big vacuum leak.

Those compression numbers suggest(along with your eyeballs) a large carbon build up.  Do a full MCCC treatment.  Get a can of it from the Chrysler dealer, drive the car till its warmed up.  Pull the maf sensor plug in and then undo the intercooler pipe at the throttle body elbow.  Start the car and try to keep it running.  It will stay running in a bit, once it learns that the MAF is unplugged it will try to run on internal backup tables.  It may idle poorly but who cares for this.

Keep it running with one hand and spray half the can into the throttle body, revving it a bit to keep it running and not misfiring too badly.  When a full half the can remains, let it die or shut it off.  The pull the plugs out and spray an equal part down each cylinder, cover the holes with rags and let it sit for at least overnite.

The next day, drain the oil and refill it as the MCCC will have leaked past the rings and contaminated the oil.  Get a spray bottle full of water and bring it to the car.  Leave the intercooler pipe and maf disconnected. Fire it up.  It may be hard to start but get it going, but keep at it.  It will smoke fairly bady.  When its warm again, spritz the whole bottle of water into the throttle body, keeping it running with your other hand.  It will smoke badly again and stink really badly.  If it still is really stinky and smoky(not just steam) do anther half bottle.

Put it back togeather, put in new properly gapped NGK BPR7ES plugs, clear the MAF code and drive the car.  You should be able to have more boost, more timing, better aircare and better mileage.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Jason Harwood

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2010, 07:26:23 am »
Seaaaafoaaaam timeee!!!!

I checked his plugs and gap, they're fine.
Plugs are fairly new and should still be good.

His turbo seal might also be gone. I noticed oil spray out of the turbo charge pipe. His car drinks oil and I think that'd be whyl.

Sy Haw, a 2g logger or a scan tool that will allow you to read basic sensors is all you need.

The front O2 voltage needs to go both fully low and fully high.  Harder to read on a cheap scanner as it will not update fast enough but you can get the general idea.  If you see min voltages of near 0.1 volt(0.13 etc) and max voltages approaching 1.0, and its steady, you should be fine.  Don't worry about the rear one.  However I say put it in anyways, and put a cat back in, as there is no way its hindering your performance.  Kris R put down 500ish hp at RG with a cat in place.  I saw 335 at one time while tuning, and I know that doesn't sound like much, but I am pretty sure its more than you are making.


As for coolant temp, the scanner or logger will read the ECU coolant temp.  If it says its -25 and you know its +5 outside, you know its fritzed up.  If it says its 7 degrees, but you know the guage on the dash is showing close to full temp, your heater is blowing hot air, and your thermostat housing is too hot to touch, you know its fritzed.  The ECU temp sensor needs to follow the actual temp of the coolant.  So right now it should start at about 5 deg(ish) and steadily climb to about 105 or so(I am not so good at the higher C temp numbers).  If not, its not any good and its a huge part of how the ECU calculates fuelling.  Too cold, and the car will be too rich, period, barring a big vacuum leak.

Those compression numbers suggest(along with your eyeballs) a large carbon build up.  Do a full MCCC treatment.  Get a can of it from the Chrysler dealer, drive the car till its warmed up.  Pull the maf sensor plug in and then undo the intercooler pipe at the throttle body elbow.  Start the car and try to keep it running.  It will stay running in a bit, once it learns that the MAF is unplugged it will try to run on internal backup tables.  It may idle poorly but who cares for this.

Keep it running with one hand and spray half the can into the throttle body, revving it a bit to keep it running and not misfiring too badly.  When a full half the can remains, let it die or shut it off.  The pull the plugs out and spray an equal part down each cylinder, cover the holes with rags and let it sit for at least overnite.

The next day, drain the oil and refill it as the MCCC will have leaked past the rings and contaminated the oil.  Get a spray bottle full of water and bring it to the car.  Leave the intercooler pipe and maf disconnected. Fire it up.  It may be hard to start but get it going, but keep at it.  It will smoke fairly bady.  When its warm again, spritz the whole bottle of water into the throttle body, keeping it running with your other hand.  It will smoke badly again and stink really badly.  If it still is really stinky and smoky(not just steam) do anther half bottle.

Put it back togeather, put in new properly gapped NGK BPR7ES plugs, clear the MAF code and drive the car.  You should be able to have more boost, more timing, better aircare and better mileage.
88' MX6 Turbo - 14.2 @ 97.51MPH
94' MX6 V6 - 13.9 @ 96.7MPH
93' Civic Turbo - 14.7 @ 90MPH (bad tune)
90' Civic SI - Auto-X Machine
97' Eclipse GSX 13.6 @ 105MPH
96' Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
97' Acura EL 14.5 @ 98MPH
'02 Lexus IS300 15.125 @ 91MPH
97' CR-V Winter Beater.
04' WRB WRX STI

Offline Brett Haviland

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2010, 09:34:18 am »
Seafoam doesn't work as good as the MCCC. 

Seafoam gets a little bit of the carbon off but you cannot let it sit on the pistons overnight.  It just evaporates.  Trust me I tried it.
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Offline Jason Harwood

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2010, 09:37:55 am »
Seafoam doesn't work as good as the MCCC. 

Seafoam gets a little bit of the carbon off but you cannot let it sit on the pistons overnight.  It just evaporates.  Trust me I tried it.

So what your saying is his car needs.


MOOOOOOOO PAR
88' MX6 Turbo - 14.2 @ 97.51MPH
94' MX6 V6 - 13.9 @ 96.7MPH
93' Civic Turbo - 14.7 @ 90MPH (bad tune)
90' Civic SI - Auto-X Machine
97' Eclipse GSX 13.6 @ 105MPH
96' Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
97' Acura EL 14.5 @ 98MPH
'02 Lexus IS300 15.125 @ 91MPH
97' CR-V Winter Beater.
04' WRB WRX STI

Offline Tony Leong

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2010, 10:01:08 am »
Sy Haw, if you need a spare set of plugs to destroy during the Sea Foam treatment, then I have set of BPR7ES (10,000 Kms on them) that I don't need.  You can toss 'em when you're done and save those newer plugs that are in there.  Not only are the NGKs free, I'll deliver 'em to you too.  Text me.

Everyone, I , too, noticed less kilometres per tank when using Husky's 94 (with 10%/15% Ethanol blended in by Mohawk).  I get anywhere between 430 kms to 500 kms per tankful, using Chevron 94, in hilly/city driving.  Engine is stock, except for a K&N panel-type filter, in a full weight AWD.

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2010, 04:55:09 pm »
your exhaust is supiciously mandrel bent and not rusty for stock  :)  And loud  :D

But I am glad you get good mileage too.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Tony Leong

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Re: Real shitty gas milage - something wrong!?
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2010, 09:54:37 am »
your exhaust is supiciously mandrel bent and not rusty for stock  :)  And loud  :D

But I am glad you get good mileage too.

Thanks John; I forgot about that exhaust - s/steel 2.5" DP going into a 2.5" high-flow cat that flows into a 3" cat-back.