Author Topic: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?  (Read 4077 times)

Offline Remi Raymond

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2010, 09:24:52 pm »
 Go with an evo ecu. I know it's a bit less beaten-path, but you're getting a much more modern computer capable of much better resolution for maps, and much faster processing. Further to that, there are dozens of extremely well proven off the shelf products that delve into much more technical detail.

 That and I really want to see the results myself, so maybe I'm projecting a bit.
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Offline kevin derhouson

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2010, 09:54:19 pm »
i'll do some more research before ordering either, but thanks shane/remi for offering an alternative :)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 11:12:21 pm by kevin derhouson »
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Offline Rob Armstrong

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2010, 12:44:48 am »
WTF bro. I told you about reflashing your ecu allready. Just go halfers on the cord with me like $100 ea.  Or $200 yourself and let me borrow it for a couple hrs. Tactrix cable. Look to see if you have a data port behind your odb2 it's up behind it and kinda hidden so you really need to get on your back with a light. Don't go buying shit right away. Look up ceddy mod on dsmtuners. I am on my cell or I would give u the link.   If your scared to use it we can blow up my car first.  I am back from osoyoos in 3 weeks if you order it now it should be there by the time I get back. My car is going off the road for a bit so now would be a good time to blow it up. :)

Offline Zach Holt

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2010, 01:01:24 am »
It's just a simpler program/set up to tune with. If your going to tune personal I would go with dsmap or aem ems. I'm sure others that have used both can be more detailed. Just my thoughts.

DSMap is not available for 2g cars.

o ODB2 right? oops lol
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Offline Maurits Vos

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2010, 12:00:40 am »
Isn't EVOScan on 2Gs still under 'research'?

I remember reading about it - though being a while back - about somebody mouthing off it worked when he wasn't supposed to. This was from the same guys that came up with ECMLink (new name for DSMLink btw)

If you're concerned about the money, you don't want an AEM EMS since they're not cheap - however I think Ron is selling his for $900 is it?

Anyways, SAFC is a device that will basically trick your car's computer to have a different air flow reading. While ECMLink is a full blown stock ECU EPROM replacement.
"you just need to drive a well setup DSM. In all fairness, a well setup DSM probably drives like a stock E30, ha ha."

Offline John Hartman

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2010, 08:01:06 am »
actually, ECMLink tricks it too, its a piggyback unit too, but way way more sophistimicated than an SAFC.
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Offline Maurits Vos

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2010, 04:38:49 pm »
Learned something new.

ECMLink tricks air flow as well? I did not know that. Always thought it was a full blown tuning unit.

What about MegaSquirt?
"you just need to drive a well setup DSM. In all fairness, a well setup DSM probably drives like a stock E30, ha ha."

Offline John Hartman

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2010, 09:41:48 pm »
MS is a full on standalone if you go with the MS&S(spark) version.  Thing is, we don't need to go with MS or other full on standalones unless we are really getting silly.  And those kind of things often take alot of time to get running well when cold, hot, part throttle, cruise etc.  Even DSMap/Jackal for how good it is, takes alot of work and/or luck to get it starting in all conditions, idling well etc.  Its free tho, so hey  :)  I guess maybe some of the really big dollar units have great base maps so they work well at first, I don't have any experience on Motec or the like.

Its best to use engine management that is used on your car.  IE Microtec on RX-7s, Jackal/ECMLink/AEM EMS on DSMs, BullyDog on Dodge diesels, Cobb Accesstuner on Mazdaspeed etc.  The community has more experience with it. 

Megasquirt is really really great for adding port fuel injection to carbed and/or throttle body injected cars.  Simple, cheap and effective.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Mike Schmid

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2010, 04:21:53 pm »
I've been a little out of the DSM thing for a couple years but I've got a SAFC and a DSMLink, the big difference is that the SAFC installs between the MAS and the ECU and can only intercept and alter one variable, which is the MAS output.  I'm simplifying somewhat, but the way I understand it is you put in injectors that are 12% bigger than stock, and then the stock ECU doesn't know that and ends up injecting 12% too much fuel all the time.  So you use the SAFC to reduce the air input by 12%, so that throws off the A/F calculation in the ECu by 12% and it injects 12% less fuel than before, which errors end up canceling each other out and you get the right A/F ratio.  Now the benefit is that you can get 12% more air in before your injectors get to full capacity, right?  This is all fine and good except when you start to alter things too much.  Say you put in 750s, that's 40% bigger than stock.  You can adjust your SAFC to 40%, sure, but what happens inside the ECU is now you're on it pretty hard and flowing tons of air and the ECU, because it's seeing airflow numbers 40% lower than reality thinks you're only under moderate load so it switches ignition maps to a more aggressive low load map and you start knocking because you're on the wrong timing maps and the SAFC can't do anything about the timing. 

So functionally I think the SAFCs work quite well with 550s, somewhat decently with 650s and poorly with any bigger injectors.  The benefit of the DSMLink is it sees everything the stock ECU sees and can see real numbers because it's inside the ECU and can get rid of the obstacles we were trying to overcome with lying thru the SAFC, namely fuel cut.  Also, you get fringe benefits like rev limit control, different outputs for the stock boost gauge (knock, timing, etc), and fine tuning control over the timing and fuel maps with a base injector size alteration so the ECU can make A/F calculations using the proper injector flow rate.  Also the ability to log boost, fuel pressure and wideband 02 is pretty cool rather than having to watch the road and those gauges and then remember all the outputs when viewing logs.  Don't forget the support network you buy into with the Link forums populated with other users and the guys who made the thing in the first place. 

To set up a safe but fun daily driver with evo3 16g, 2G MAS, 550s, and the usual FP, exhaust, maybe intercooler, etc a SAFC would be a great choice but in my opinion if you were going to go farther than that a DSMLink or comparable alternative would be a far better choice. 
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Offline Richard Clark

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Re: what really does DSMlink offer over a safc?
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2010, 09:32:55 am »
Simple, cheap, and effective.

98/99 ECU, and flash it.  I beleive this is what rob is talking about.