EPROM Chip - Help me decide what I need.

[CamWeiss]

Hey all

I've got my ecu out for a socket job right now... Guess it's time that I ordered a chip to go with it.

I was going to order a Jeff O chip. But I've got a few options I'm not sure about. So tell me what I want.

(Car is a 1992 AWD, currently has the stock 1G MAS, unmolested. Have FIC 650's and supporting bits to go in it).



-Fuel Cut. Eliminate, or leave in? I was planning to leave it in for safety unless someone has a compelling reason not to.
-MAS Compensation. Should I remove the lower honeycomb? Leave it in? Chip must be ordered one way or the other.
-High Speed Closed Loop. Yes, or no? (I'm thinking no for better economy...)
-Fuel Pressure. With the AFPR, I can set it to whatever I want. Is the generally default for DSM 37psi good, or should I bump it up and order the chip as such?


Thanks for the advice... Not a newbie member but still has newbie questions.

[Jason Harwood]

Remove Honeycomb or switch to 2g maf.
I'd remove fuel cut.

When you email Jeff about the order and tell him the setup, he normally will let you know what you should do for a more optimal setup.
That's what he did for mine and mine ended up being perfect.

[CamWeiss]

Good to know. Thanks Jason.

[Dan Harshey]

I have a 50/50 opinion on his service, when i first started contacting him communication was very good.  In the last 3 to 4 months i've been contacting him about my chip as all my fuel trims are pegged rich, i've tried everything he has suggested to correct it with nothing changing the trims.  I've asked him more than once if he could re-burn a chip with less deadtime so my trims would come back closer to 100%  I've become somewhat frustrated with communicating through e-mails and think i'd rather deal locally with some kind of engine management.
Pretty sure after my trip to RG and seeing my dyno numbers and being pretty disappointed i'm going to be switching to DS-map.

[Jason Harwood]

I have a 50/50 opinion on his service, when i first started contacting him communication was very good.  In the last 3 to 4 months i've been contacting him about my chip as all my fuel trims are pegged rich, i've tried everything he has suggested to correct it with nothing changing the trims.  I've asked him more than once if he could re-burn a chip with less deadtime so my trims would come back closer to 100%  I've become somewhat frustrated with communicating through e-mails and think i'd rather deal locally with some kind of engine management.
Pretty sure after my trip to RG and seeing my dyno numbers and being pretty disappointed i'm going to be switching to DS-map.

He was good to me and I was happy with my RG numbers!!!
Maybe there is something wrong with your car?
Injectors? Fuel Pressure?

I thought for sure when I had it in that I had issues, on the dyno, everything confirmed working perfectly.

[John Hartman]

its odd that you say that Dan.  I have been really happy with his service for sure.

I wonder of anyone has been dealing with his stuff if hes away on holidays or something?

If you are going to stay with a MAF setup, get either a 2g maf or if you plan on actually over 400 wheel hp, then an Evo 8 maf.  Don't bother with the 1g maf, seriously.  its just too small, has low resolution and just isn't as good.

Get the higher rpm closed loop, its good for mileage.  The car will stay in closed loop and keep things nice at higher hiway speeds.  One of the reasons my car got such excellent mileage before.

As for fuel pressure I would go up to 40-42 psi or even higher depending on how much boost you are going to run.  The injectors atomize the fuel better at higher pressures, but its a rising rate regulator, so as you raise your boost, the fuel pressure goes up too.  If you go too high, the pump flow goes down too much and can't keep up.  Flow and pressure(from the pump) are inversely proportional.

Get the extended maps, get the phantom knock code and get anything else that sounds good.  If you want to know about something else specific, post it up.

Make sure you tell him EVERYTHING about your engine and setup.  Fuel octane rating, compression ratio(head been milled?  2g pistons? thin head gasket?), cams, turbo, exhaust manifold etc.

Car is faster now with Jackal and I can tune it myself, but the car ran better in every non WOT way with Jeffs chip in there. Idled better, SUPER clean aircare, awesome mileage, quick clean starts etc etc.  And it always hit the target A/F ratios because its a mass airflow setup.  You don't have to go fiddle around at high altitude or cold/hot days, it just works.

And even power wize, I only picked up 35hp and minimal torque even with the addition of an FP exhaust manifold, nicer O2 housing and a dyno tune.

[CamWeiss]

Thanks for the replies
I've been corresponding with Jeff today about what I need.

He's convinced me to switch to a 3G MAF, as I plan to be running ~20-22PSI on the 14b. Too much for the MAS to flow.

Based on your feedback, I'll get the high RPM closed loop option. I don't see anything on the site about extended maps or the phantom knock stuff. I'll specify a higher base fuel pressure (Say... 45psi). Assuming the regulator (Aeromotive Compact FPR) is a 1:1 rise with boost, that should see a maximum of 70psi if I ever spin the 14b up to 25psi.

Since there will be a 3G MAS going in, I will eliminate fuel cut - No worries about overrunning that sensor.

I was talking to Jesse Veitch today... He recommended DSMlink Lite. Just checking out the site, it looks VERY appealing. I still think I'll go with the JeffO chip for now, as I don't currently have a wideband o2 sensor, and I don't really have time to tune. There's been a Wally 255 sitting in the garage for six months that I still haven't installed... Never mind taking the time to properly tune with DSMLink.

This motor's also (to my knowledge) still sealed from the factory. I've never had it apart, so no variables to be concerned with there.

[Dan Harshey]

you will probably still have to tune with Jeff's chip, at least i did anyway, its close but not perfect.

[Chad Giffen]

20-22psi on a 14b??!?!?!?

Say goodbye to your thrust bearing or oil seals in less than a year. Plus you will prolly exit the efficiency map and just flop it on its face. Id do background research on that first.

I would at least get a 7cm housing if you want to run 20-22psi. If I remember correctly, the 14B hits max airflow at 14psi 6000rpm. after that, airflow is less as you move out of the compressor map efficiency island.

Not to mention....    do you have a FMIC Cam? cause you will heat soak the crap out of your intercooler and say hello to knock.


I wouldn't want 70psi running through my fuel system.

[Shane Sawatzki]

i always thought the 14b lost efficiency running that kind of boost 

if thats true i think its time for an upgrade cam !  small 16g? evo 16g?

[kevin derhouson]

rtm has a special on this guy atm 

https://www.rtmracing.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17449&cat=0&page=0&featured=Y

[John Hartman]

Cam, you will definately be out of the 14b eficiency range for sure.

And you won't be outflowing the 2g maf on a 14b either, no matter what you do, unless you run like a 150 shot of N2O    It just can't flow that kinda air.

I wasn't out flowing my 2g maf on either my -10 or my -12 GT30 based dual ball bearing turbos at those pressure levels.

Not saying not to get the 3g maf, as its better, smaller and is less restriction, and later when you get a bigger turbo it will be ready to go, but don't JUST get one for the flow from a 14b.

The pk code and the extended maps are not official, but work killer, just ask for em.

If you tell Jeff everything, your tune will be VERY close.  If you forget, or tell a fib, you will get a chip based on it.

Oh and keep that fuel pressure a tad lower.  I would say 41-42 psi base pressure(vacuum hose off the regulator).  This way if you run 22+ psi of boost, that will keep the Wally safe.

[CamWeiss]

I'm planning to try for 20 psi. Water injection has taken care of knock nicely so far. I've read a few threads on Tuners that would suggest a 14b is still good at 20, but anything above 22-23 will give you a great hairdryer.
Jeff is giving me a good price on the chip + 3g, plus it is an easy install into the aircan. Same dimensions as the 1g MAF.

I want to stick with the 14b for a few reasons.
-For autocross purposes, swapping the turbo puts you in a different (harder) class. I like it where I am.
-Spool. Faster is best. Again, autocross.
-Money. I'd prefer to spend it on suspension bits rather than a turbo. And if this 14b eventually eats it, there are always more available for cheap. If I were ever to swap turbos, I'd be looking closely at a FP 'Big 28'.

[Brett Haviland]

FP big 28??

Man go with a FP HTA 68.  And then you wont even have to go up a class in autocross. 

"stock turbo man"...


yup!

[John Hartman]

+1, and its the same price too basically.  And fully bolt on.

But a 14b is like $150 sooo...