Author Topic: New Daily Driver  (Read 3371 times)

Offline John Hartman

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2010, 09:44:11 pm »
yea the 2010 is ugly in my opinion, and its down on power, but still a very sorted out platform.  Speed6's are hardish to find, but Speed3's are more easily availiable because they have been made for longer and more were sold. The Speed6 was approximately $50,000 Canadian when they first came out, while the 3 is more affordable.

Direct Gasoline injection is different in that on a traditional multiport setup(like on the Talon) there are injectors that spray on the back side of the intake valve.  This only needs 30-60psi pressure.  But it can condense/puddle sometimes and has some timing issues compared to DI.  As well, at high rpm, in order to get enough fuel in, the injector has to fire for a long(relative term) time at the back of the closed valve and therefore its a puddle of gas that has to rely on vacuum to atomize it, like in a carb setup.  it works, but its primitive in terms of emissions and economy, as well as controlled burning.

With direct injection, the injectors tip is INSIDE the combustion chamber, just like a spark plug.  Fuel pressure is between 500-2000psi(for the most part)  Emissions, throttle response and fuel economy are greatly enhanced as well as power and torque.

detonation is much easier to control because you don't have to spray fuel before its needed.  With a traditional engine, the fuel is sprayed, then the intake valve is opened, so there is fuel and air in the chamber on the compression stroke.  This can ignite prematurely.

On a DI engine, the fuel is sprayed at the last possible milisecond.  Until then, the compression stroke is only compressing air, so it can't preignite.  Now, this doesn't work perfectly as when the engine speed is high, you have only so many miliseconds to spray fuel, so you have to start spraying earlier and earlier into the compression stroke.  But as we know, its at low-mid range that knock is harder to suppress anyways, so it pays bigger dividends here.

Plus you can do things like stratified charge spray patterns etc.

It pays off, as the car is 9.5:1 compression and just under 16psi boost from factory.  And while it doesn't get econobox fuel economy it gets very good mileage for a 3500+ lbs car with awd and a powerful engine.

The downside is that the fuel pressure is very high, the injectors are not upgradable(yet) and ungodly expensive, and it has 2 fuel pumps.  Plus the tuning world is still in its infancy when it comes to setting this stuff up, but they are catching up.

Volkswagen and some others are using similar systems to good effect.

Diesels have been direct injected for a while now, also with great benefits.  All the new domestic diesels are rated at over 600lbs/ft of tq stock, with direct injection being a major contributor.  And they are cleaner and get better economy, while being quieter and smoother.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Sy Haw Wong

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2010, 11:39:16 pm »
This is a great in-dept explanation.

Yeah John.  I know what you mean.  The new VWs and Audis all use a similar system.  The fuel injectors are actually inside the manifolds.

Offline John Hartman

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2010, 06:00:01 pm »
no, to be direct injection it HAS to be spraying directly into the chamber, on the chamber side of the intake valve.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline CamWeiss

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2010, 07:08:06 pm »
Very nice choice, John!

I've always respected the Mazdaspeed lineup, but they need the AWD treatment that yours has.



[AWD is AwD??? Explain to us slower folks]
Objects in mirrors appear to be losing.

'92 6/4
'86 325e
'72 240z
'76 R75/6
'07 KTM 640 ADV

Offline Maurits Vos

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2010, 07:53:49 pm »
All Wheel Drive is All We'll Drive ;)
"you just need to drive a well setup DSM. In all fairness, a well setup DSM probably drives like a stock E30, ha ha."

Offline John Hartman

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2010, 08:06:47 pm »
now THATS what I am talking about!
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Graeme H Burvill

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2010, 09:26:31 pm »
Damn, i love the new mazda's.
Good call John!
Talon TSI-Champagne...She must live again...

patrickWoo

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2010, 03:06:58 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6YjxCr8m0U

Here's this car in action!

I'm not sold on the DI technology yet, because your 2.3L 16psi makes the same power as my 2.0L 16psi and I don't have to pay for expensive DI injectors if I need to upgrade. 3500lb = 1587kg so our cars weigh roughly the same too, your car has airbags and stuff for the extra 40kilo probably.

Also the fact that Honda doesn't use it, Mitsubishi dropped it (the GDI), and Toyota uses a secondary port injection on its IS350 makes me wonder if the technology is still too premature to push out to the market.

Yes it's definitely more environmentally friendly but it's not wallet friendly nor does it make a lot of sense in the long run (too many extra parts to do some tree hugging)

but my car doesn't pass aircare and I have no intention to fix that you can tell how I don't care much about the emissions of a car hahahahahaha.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 03:12:08 pm by patrickWoo »

Offline Remi Raymond

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2010, 03:30:38 pm »
Yeah, I bet there are still guys not sold on OHC and fuel injection too Pat :P DI is a superior method to balance power and economy and it allows for MUCH more aggressive tuning from the factory.

 Plus look at all that torque!
They're like expensive pokemon... gotta catch 'em all.

Offline John Hartman

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2010, 07:18:28 pm »
More manufacturers are using it.  Porsche, VW, Audi, Mercedes, Mini, BMW, Ferrari, Holden and Ford all use it..  Just because Honduh and Toyota(who it seems can't even make a gas pedal) aren't on board yet doesn't mean much to me.  Its not premature at all, its been out for 5-6 years or more on the mass market and been around for 10 or so years in isolated uses.  It dates back to the mid '20s however, and was used in the 50s most famously in the Mercedes 300SL gullwing coupe.

As for power your car is not stock  ;)  Stock for stock, mine makes more power per liter and mod for mod it does too.  And I am not talking about advertized power either, because thats even worse for you.  And has more aftermarket parts for it.  And has stock replacement parts availiable for it at regular stores.   And it does it on one turbo with simple plumbing.  And gets good mileage and is very clean at the tailpipe.

Weather or not you think its intelligent to do your part to keep the earth clean just shows your ignorance because we all have to breathe the air and drink the water, be it here or in Hong Kong.

not only that I bet I could sell my car in a week for close to my asking price.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Corey Cook

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2010, 08:06:38 am »
wait till the have solonoid actuated valves and take the cam out of the picture, direct injection plus solonoid activated valves could mean some serious power yet it will idle perfectly and at a low rpm.  with solonoid activated valves you wont even need a throttle plate. 

Offline Maurits Vos

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2010, 10:01:03 am »
Okay okay the real question.

John. How much?
"you just need to drive a well setup DSM. In all fairness, a well setup DSM probably drives like a stock E30, ha ha."

Offline Dan Harshey

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2010, 12:51:27 pm »
wait till the have solonoid actuated valves and take the cam out of the picture, direct injection plus solonoid activated valves could mean some serious power yet it will idle perfectly and at a low rpm.  with solonoid activated valves you wont even need a throttle plate. 

Some newer BMW's are using something like this already.

Nice choice of car John!
91 Talon Tsi AWD 312hp/294ft/lbs<br />93 Talon Tsi FWD SOLD!

Offline John Hartman

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2010, 09:30:38 am »
yep, lots of cool tech in the pipeline.

M, too much, but ALOT less than an Evo.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Mike Schmid

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Re: New Daily Driver
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2010, 11:31:34 am »
Cool new ride John.  Those are nice cars.  I haven't driven the speed6 but my mom has an '03 Mazda6 V6 and it's a pretty decent car.  Handles pretty well for a bigger car and for regular driving it's comfy and competent.  The AWD and extra power and handling of the speed version should make for a real nice daily driver. 
DSMs - fun when they run

'92 TSi AWD AT - 180bhp
'93 TSi AWD - 195bhp
'90 Laser RS NT - *sold*
'71 Camaro - *sold*