The Ultimate Retarded "Starter" thread(long)

[Mike Schmid]

It's not an alarm problem is it?

Here's test procedures from the manual:

To check pinion extension:

1. remove field coil wire from M terminal, the one coming from the starter motor casing.  
2. Connect battery ground to M terminal.
3. Connect 12V+ to S terminal.  

The pinion should pop out confirming that the pull in coil is good, it does say it will burn out the solenoid coil if you leave it for more than 10 seconds though.  

Hold in test of magnetic switch:

1. remove field coil wire from M terminal, the one coming from the starter motor casing.
2. Connect bettery ground to starter motor casing.
3. Connect 12V+ to S terminal.

If pinion remains out everything is in good order.  

Free running test:

1. Place starter in vice
2. Connect battery ground to starter motor casing
3. Connect 12V+ to M terminal (with field coil wire connected to M terminal)  

The motor should spin.

To hook it up in the car there should be 12V+ on a big line coming directly to the B terminal, the motor case should be grounded with a big line, the field coil wire should go to the M terminal and the small wire coming from the starter relay should go to the S terminal.  At least that's the way I interpret it.

[Andrew Steele]

2 ur fly wheel dont wanna budge  :cry:

Ahh.. good idea!

Scotty, how's the bell housing lookin?  A backed-off bolt or two could mis-allign the housing to the block, resulting in flywheel<->bellhousing friction.
But I'd suspect you'd hear somethin more than just a 'click' when you go to turn it over.  Unless there's a flakey ground compounding the situation.

Could assume the worst though, catastrophic crank failure

I need sleep ...

[Travis Merrick]

I was thinking the same thing there Andrew.  Make sure everything is aligned with the tranny, and make sure the flywheel didnt shatter/warp cause of the coldness in your neck of the woods.  Pull the starter out and see if you can see the teeth of the flywheel if you can get your head in there.

[Mike Schmid]

forgot to mention......................would like to thank Jay Layhe and some dumb ass Colt owner for helping me push the ol' dsm for a loooong roll start so I didnt get towed by the local " snow removal" company.  The WWd is home once again.

The engine still runs tho.  Since it runs and drives it stands to reason that the only problem with the flywheel could be no teeth on the ring gear but then the starter would spin but the motor wouldn't turn over.  Furthermore, it also stands to reason that the starter/tranny/bellhousing are all installed properly being that the car runs and drives.  Plus I believe he's had this problem before but only temporarily.  

I would say are you sure that the field coil wire hanging off the starter motor is connected to the M terminal?  If you're sure the wiring is correct and you're sure you have enough good fully charged CCA from the battery and you know the S terminal is getting power I would have to say the new starter is bunk because the motor in it won't turn, or the solenoid that closes between the B and M terminals is fubar.  It's not unheard of to have bad new parts.  

Sometimes on an electric motor when the commutator and brushes get bad it's possible for them to loose contact with each other at certain spots, it doesn't affect how they run but it can be enough that if they stop in just the right (or wrong) place the motor won't start.  I would suspect that was what was wrong with your previous one but then this one does it too.

On the note of the battery are you sure you've got enough juice?  Even if it is a new battery?  I've had times where the dash lights up, dome light works, starter clicks but there's just not enough there to turn it over.  I just say that because it's pretty cold up there and that will affect the ability of the battery to make big amps.

[Scott Girvin]

well...........the flywheel and driveline are functioning properly. I can roll start the car and drive it with no problems......idles fine, runs good, etc.

 I have tested the starter outside of the car and it works fine...maybe a shady reman that I got.

I had the battery tested at the local Canadian Tire 2 days ago which said the battery was in "good" condition.

I removed all of the aftermarket wiring that had anything to do with the stock ignition. Alarm and TT to be specific. Still with no results.

I havent had time to play with the car today, but as I mentioned before the next attempt is to better ground the starter housing by adding a ground wire to a starter mounting bolt then directly to the battery. One thing that may be a problem is that the new starter housing has been painted( by Dixie Electronics). Im guessing that this could cause the starter to not properly ground itself against the bell housing. Sound like a possibility?

Im thinking I might sand off the painted surface that mates with the bell housing.

[Mike Schmid]

Isn't the big ground wire supposed to go to a mounting bolt?  That's what it looks like on the manual's diagram.  Where did you put the ground?

[Scott Girvin]

:oops:

It seems I have made an error..........should change the thread title to " The Ultimate, Im retarded, Starter Thread".

I have the ground wire to the one of the terminals at the solinoid......whoops