Oil Leak from Timing Belt Cover

[KevinBuckham]

I'm getting VERY frustrated with the car right now.  If I was on the mainland it would be in the hands of Lowell and RG right now.  I have a pretty fast oil leak coming from under the timing belt cover.  Any thoughts about possible sources of the leak?  (I idled for a about 2 minutes and have a 7" diameter pool of oil under the car.)

My bottom end wasn't touched so I figure it must be timing belt/tensioner/pulley bolt related.  The oil filter housing doesn't appear to be the source of the leak as the oil is dripping from the center of the lower t-belt cover.

I'll rip it all apart this weekend, but I *really* didn't want to be doing that again.

[KevinBuckham]

Further info: I *did* use RTV on the hydraulic tensioner bolts, and the cam seals appear to be fine.  I'll double check it tonight.

[Marke Bailey]

probably one of the seals. crank, oil pump, balance shafts.

[KevinBuckham]

probably one of the seals. crank, oil pump, balance shafts.

For how much is coming out I'd agree, but the block and those seals weren't touched and were new when I built the 2.4.  I'll look this weekend.  Thanks!

[KevinBuckham]

OK, I just got everything off so I could inspect the timing belt area.

I would really appreciate any input.  The pictures aren't super clear, but they are the best two of about 20 that I took.  Click them for full size images:




There is absolutely no oil coming off the head anywhere so it's not the cam seals nor the valve cover gasket.  The majority of the oil was pooled on the outside of the oil pump sprocket.  However I see either very little or none under either the oil pump sprocket or under the crank sprocket.  Perhaps the oil just drained to the outboard side of the oil pump sprocket from somewhere higher up?

[Greg Durban]

Have you tried starting it without the cover on??? From looking at the pictures I can't see anything but then again i'm not an expert by any means.

[John Hartman]

yep.  Clean it very well.  Simple green, or Spray Nine etc, strong spray soap, get it everywhere, then hose it off really well, let it dry or help it dry with compressed air, fans etc.

Once its dry, start the car and watch it.  you have no water pump like this unless you hook up some belts, but if its cold it will be fine as you say it only takes a min or so to get the leak.

I personally don't like the frost plug you have in for blocking off the front bshaft.  It doesn't look fully seated.  That and those iffy hardware store bolts (3 of them below the frost plug).  Use good bolts in this area.

None of the tensioner, pulley etc bolts need sealant, so its not from that.

If one of the seals is gone that badly, detension and remove the timing belt and carefully inspect the shaft it seals for any play at all.  Usually a seal, unless it falls out(check that too) a seal will normally just make a mess, but slowly.  but if the bearing or shaft is badly worn, the seal will puke like crazy.  With tension on the Tbelt, you won't be able to detect the play.

[KevinBuckham]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the help.  I have the simple green out right now, and hopefully it will be obvious. This is one case I wish I had dirty oil.

Those bolts came with the kiggly crank sensor and they are 8.8 which is close to the Mitsu "7".  The only fastener source I have here only has 13mm heads on those bolts.  (In most other cases if I need to replace a bolt it's been Mitsubishi or grade 10.9 with the stupid sized heads.   I'll look for some on Monday.

I didn't notice the freeze plug until now either, thanks.

[KevinBuckham]

The oil is being cast off the outside of the oil pump sprocket between the sprocket and bolt head which I would guess means the seal is shot, and perhaps it's time for a new oil pump?  I can't think of what would cause that seal to fail if the pump was still good.

This pump doesn't have many miles on it and it was a factory pump.

[John Hartman]

yup gotta be that seal.

Take the belt off and wiggle the shaft around by hand.  Its almost gotta be a worn bearing.  If it has no play, put in another seal and see how that goes.  Maybe just a bad seal, but if it was installed correctly and pre lubed, and there is no damage to the shaft or pump, seals should last longer than that.

[KevinBuckham]

Abolutely no play in the bearing, but there's no easy to way to get to the seal either.  The nut holding the oil pump sprocket on is completely stripped.  I can't back it off at all.  (But it spins in place quite nicely.)

I am guessing it happened when I primed the pump with an impact gun.   (Who would have thought that IR Ti gun could do that?  Yeah, I'm an idiot.)  Some googling suggests that I'm not the only clown to use an impact gun, but apparently I didn't get away with it.

If that is stripped I'm thinking it's likely the gears were pulled into the case and it's just safer to replace the whole front case and gear set then worry about an oil pump failure.  I see Mitsu thinks their front cases are made of gold and platinum, but I'm not rolling the dice with a Hyundai/topline setup.

Maybe I can actually re-use my old 97 factory gears with a new 6 bolt case as the later helical gears are upgrade part numbers for the old 6 bolt sets.

[John Hartman]

you may be able to get that nut off.

Craftsman makes a stripped nut remover set that has rarely(and I mean rarely!!) failed me.

They have reverse threaded inverse "propeller" shapes inside and you put it over the stripped nut.  Then hold the gear and put your IR Ti(same gun as I use professionally) in reverse, put the right socket over top and hit it.  As it spins, it bites deeper and deeper on the stripped nut and turns it off.

http://www.epinions.com/review/Craftsman_13_Pc_Bolt_Out_Set/content_120728161924

[KevinBuckham]

Thanks, I have a set of those, but of course haven't stripped anything since I bought it.  The inner thread is actually stripped but the 14mm hex nut grips fine.  My problems are always so nicely original. 

[John Hartman]

oh shit...

new something is in order.  Just keep the gear set in the oil pump drive matched.  New, or "used set"