In the market for cams, limited budget.. Recommendations ?

[Miles Frederick]

Hey all, it's been awhile since posting.  I'm in the process of a timing belt job and am looking to upgrade the cams from stock at the same time.  I've heard colt cams recommended as a good local regrinder, leaning towards them if they're still a good option, but looking for some recommendations in terms of what profile would be most suitable for my setup.

Relavent mods :
td05-20g w/ external gate ported and clipped (10 degrees I think ?), front mount ic, 3" exhaust, speed density, cyclone intake (open at 4k), meth, fuel, ignition, etc.

Driving is all street, some city, some highway.  I enjoy nice torque down low (cyclone), though am certainly willing to give up some.  I tend not to rev all that high, most likely as power drops off anyhow right now, but certainly won't be looking to increase the limit above the stock 7500 as funds don't allow for springs.  As well would prefer to get away without adjustable gears and the need to degree them.

I'm looking to match up to the turbo's airflow capacity, without overdoing it.  Also must be able to pass aircare without swapping them out every year

Am I on the right path in thinking something along the likes of the colt cams stage 1 (~266 duration?).  Is that enough cam to suit the airflow of a 20g, or should I go the next step up ? (If I remember correctly around 600cfm)

Thanks for any input,

Miles

[Marke Bailey]

I would go with a 272 type of cam. You can still aircare with them and they give great power up top. probably want the HKS cams, as they are proven to work well in that range. You can also talk to delta cams, who are in washington state. he makes copy grinds of all types of manufacturers, and his prices are very reasonable. he is a vendor on dsmtuners if you go on there.

[John Hartman]

limited budget puts HKS and GSC and others like that out the window.

Delta does fine, but they copy other cam grinders and don't do thier own testing and developement, so I personally leave them alone.  Plus with shipping they are pretty close to a good used set of cams or a new set of regrinds from Colt.

Being that you have a 91(ASM aircare test) you can probably get away with bigger cams, IE something in the 272 degree area, but be advised that if it idles lumpy, even an ASM test will give you trouble.  Lumpy idle = LOTS of unburned hydrocarbons.

[Zach Holt]

call rg and see what they have kicking around.

[Rob Armstrong]

Being that you have a 91(ASM aircare test) you can probably get away with bigger cams, IE something in the 272 degree area, but be advised that if it idles lumpy, even an ASM test will give you trouble.  Lumpy idle = LOTS of unburned hydrocarbons.

I find if I bump up my fuel at the lowest setting on my AFC so I am running at a lil higher rpm the lumpiness goes away. Would that help With aircare or would the added rpm just make up the difference? 272's

[Marke Bailey]

aircare wont test if the idle is too high.

[Rob Armstrong]

I am talking from 850 rpm up to 1000. Not super drastic.

[Miles Frederick]

I could imagine increasing the idle could help with hc, however without increased airflow, I would think it might just richen it up negating some of the benefits.  For me, the I'm less worried about the idle test as with ds-map can set the idle point which will open the isc a bit more.

  The driving test has historically always given me trouble though, with no provision for egr on the cyclone manifold, it's a delicate balance between hc and oxides of n.  As well running closed loop off a wideband doesn't help I'm sure, but did see a big improvement last year by moving the sensor from the downpipe to the manifold. 

Will 272's or equivalent have much effect on the driving test ? (The 40 km/h, steady throttle type test, they seem to usually test it in second so whatever rpm that equates to)

What about the tri-flow colt cams staggering, supposed to improve idle and low end characteristics, I'm thinking this would help w/ aircare, can anyone confirm ?

[Jordan Kruger]

I have some 272 regrinds that I just pulled out of my motor when I swapped in some Crower 272's. The regrinds need a reconditioning, but they made some solid power on my setup. 333awhp @ 25psi on a GT3071 w/ speed density, 4" intake, Large front mount, 3" charge tubing, stock tb, ported stock intake + 3" exhaust.   NO meth!    When my car goes in for its next tune it will make 400awhp, and would have with my regrind cams that I just swapped out. I just came across a good deal on my Crowers. Ive passed aircare with the 272 regrinds  and Ive been told that my setup was very efficient by Racing Greed.  The last time I took the car in with these cams and meth, the session didnt go so swell. My timing was out at the crank due to a loose crank bolt!      
If you are looking for the most conservative of the powerful camshaft combinations, I would go with a 264 intake cam and 272 exhaust cam (of the same make)  take a look at HKS 264's   they are damn aggressive (hks tends to be on the more aggressive side)  This kit is often offered and said to be the best happy medium between response and power. I have only ever drove or been in a dsm with both 272 cams however.  If you step up to this I can tell you that its the only combo Ide run. I love a little bit of a light switch throttle. I now have a larger 65mm throttle body which completes my whole intake setup. Every portion of my intake and exhaust is modified so I cant tell exactly how the cams would affect your setup. There are so many variables in making a response machine. Just go with a 272/272 set and get some killer flow and go through aircare trouble free. It can be done, and has been time and time again. A cat and some tuning equipment can make anything happen.
If you step up to 280's you will definitely have to change the springs out, so thats out of the question.

If you have a 1g, I have the 272 regrinds and I also have stock cams in really good condition for sale (good for a regrind)

*** 272's @ $100

***Stockers @ $40

Im sure your looking at over $300+ to regrind cams. Could be really cheap if you take my regrinds to colt cams and have them cleaned up. Theres only pitting on certain spots. And they will make power.

I know Andrew Volcz has some HKS 264's he will part with for a good deal too!    theres a few options  

[John Hartman]

there is much more to a cam than its advertized duration.  Actual duration at .50, ramp angle, centerline, relation to the other cam, etc.

EG, I have found the HKS cams to be less aggressive than say GSC or some of the other new grinds.

Some of the older grinds were way out to lunch centerline wize so you had a crapshoot on if it would run well, but that seems to be mostly taken care of.

If you can find a set of actual HKS 264 cams that are in really good shape, that might be your ticket.  Good idle, nice throttle response and better power than stock for sure.  Not huge up top but you say you don't want that anyways so its a plus.

Raising the idle WILL help with aircare, but like Marke said, only so high.  Close loop while testing is very helpful as well.  you have to make sure you are in closed loop at least for the load they run it at.  If it goes into open loop, you will likely fail.

The Triflow cams are very good for non crazy setups.  Idle is as good or close to it as stock, nice throttle response and clean tailpipe(providing the rest of the setup is in order).  No they are not for huge power, but for what you are looking at, they may be ideal.

In fact I may need something bigger, what with my higher redline and bigger turbo/more boost. So its possible that mine will be up for sale.

Tho, I know that the triflows can be made as big as you want. 

[Jordan Kruger]

You have to classify cams somehow john    
Of course there are many other factors, its what makes selecting a cam so difficult. Or as difficult as you want to make it. The good names make good cams.    
and GSC makes awsome cams. priiiiicey tho.

HKS is $200 cheaper.  

If I had a balls to the wall setup, ide run stupid aggressive Kelford's

Go with 264 intake cam/ 272 exhaust cam combo! It will assist with boost similar to stock and have assisted top end.

OR

Go 272/272 and giver.

I think I may have posted this before, but its definitely applicable here.
http://amsperformance.com/camtest.php