Author Topic: Camshaft Install  (Read 1003 times)

Offline Eric_Wang

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Camshaft Install
« on: July 30, 2010, 06:05:26 pm »
Hey guys, im about to try and install the HKS 264s. I read over on the steps to do so. The only thing i think im missing is the MD998738 tool. I read that you could use a long bolt with 8mm x 1.25 pitch. Anyone have any good advice in doing this step?
-1995 Eagle talon TSI AWD
2GB Conversion - Strut Bar - Tein Basic Coilovers - FMIC - Greddy BOV - Big EVO III 16G - Injen Intake - 550cc Injectors - Ported 02 housing - FP Exhaust Manifold - 3" Exhaust & DP - MBC - SAFC

Offline Brett Haviland

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2010, 09:32:13 pm »
the tensioner compression tool?


You dont need it.  Just take the timing belt off and stick the pin in the tensioner before you do so.  Or use a vice to SLOWLY compress the tensioner.


Knowing you personally Eric... it sounds like you are in over your head here.  You can easily wreck your engine installing cams... even if you dont screw up the timing belt.


I would contact a professional.

MY number is 604 613 8336.  I do side work for very reasonable rates.
I like Colts.  Turbo Colts.

Offline Eric_Wang

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2010, 11:16:59 pm »
LOL really? How can i wreck it :(
Im just following steps from vfaq http://vfaq.com/index-main.html i guess any other info could help? Thanks :)
-1995 Eagle talon TSI AWD
2GB Conversion - Strut Bar - Tein Basic Coilovers - FMIC - Greddy BOV - Big EVO III 16G - Injen Intake - 550cc Injectors - Ported 02 housing - FP Exhaust Manifold - 3" Exhaust & DP - MBC - SAFC

Offline Brett Haviland

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2010, 11:52:25 pm »
okay i just went over the instructions on VFAQ.

Its missing a very critical step. and also  a few other warnings that it does not go over.  It is assuming you have a pretty good understanding of the motor i assume and what is involved with removing cams and dealing with hydrolic lifters.

THis missing step can cause bent valves.. and the other missing steps and warning can cause your balance shafts to be out of alignment (if the oil pump sproket decides to skip a few teeth when you relieve the tension from the tensioner with the "special tool" and have your cam gears sitting to the side a bit with the slack in the belt....... and cuz you never removed the lower cover and decided to take a "short cut" then you will never know  it is out of alignment....... So Yes,  you can fuck shit up following those instructions.


Good luck.  I hope you dont screw it up.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 11:55:36 pm by Brett Haviland »
I like Colts.  Turbo Colts.

Offline Eric_Wang

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2010, 01:31:36 am »
Alright, well i have started the job. I did the first Cam (exhaust) and had things go pretty smoothly, however now listening to the expert im kinda nervous lol. So this missing Critical step, what would it be? And how can i assure to do this the best i can to not mess it up? I have no problem taking the lower cover off, but would i still be able to know if the balance shaft is out of alignment now that im this far ahead? Im not saying i know these motors super well, but i have done all the mods myself and i do like working on cars and am a forklift mechanic. Im definally not close to being as good as you or any other member in here, however i love to learn. So i have this in a newbie corner hoping to have some pointers as this would be my first time doing it on this car. If you think im really gonna eff things up and should get professional help so i dont blow my motor up then i wouldnt mind having you help me depending on your price i guess lol. Thanks again tho for all the help so far :)
-1995 Eagle talon TSI AWD
2GB Conversion - Strut Bar - Tein Basic Coilovers - FMIC - Greddy BOV - Big EVO III 16G - Injen Intake - 550cc Injectors - Ported 02 housing - FP Exhaust Manifold - 3" Exhaust & DP - MBC - SAFC

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2010, 07:59:46 am »
shit, I got to this too late.

Doing cams, and just the cams/lifters, you don't have to take the drive belts off, the tire off, the lower splash shield, the crank pulley or the lower timing cover.

All you do is pull the upper cover, rotate the engine to TDC, zip tie the cam gears to the timing belt, detension the timing belt with the long tool(which I make and sell cheaply).

Then pull the valve cover and pull ONE CAM AT A TIME.    You pull one gear off, hold the cam gear up with a long bungee chord to the hood.  This way the tension stays on the belt and nothing can slip or go out of time.  Once the gear is held up with a bungee chord and off the end of the cam, you take the cam out. and to make it easier so that the tension of the belt doesn't pull the gears togeather, I slide a short piece of old timing belt between the gears.  It fits perfectly into one of the gears and flat against the other.  Works like a charm.


Eric, doing it the easy way or the hard way, there are several areas where you can mess up and either damage your engine or make it run bad.  Cam caps HAVE to go back exactly the way they are.  Cam cap torque is critical.  Putting the cam gears back on the way I suggest doing it is harder and a bit tricky, but its easier by FAR than doing a whole timing belt job.  Also if you drop anything down the lower timing belt cover, you have to get it out.  As well, the rocker arms are a bit tricky to put on as they just sit there and can be knocked loose when you put the cam on top of them.  easy once you have done it but tricky the first time.  The CAS is another area, you have to make sure you line it up.  There are marks but it can go in 180deg out of phase and the car will still run.  You CAN leave it in the head tho if you wiggle and work the intake cam out. I would say the actual hardest thing is to break loose the exhaust cam gear bolt.  There is nothing to hold the cam steady against.  With the intake cam, you can put a wrench on the cam and rest it against the exhaust cam, but the exhaust cam has to rest against the head and its really thin there.  You have to either have an impact and air or get really creative.  they are on there TOIGHT!!  It will sound like you broke the cam or bolt when they come loose.  Also lock tite the bolts back in too(blue not red)  And you have to let the car sit for a few hours just to be safe about letting the lifters settle so they are not pushing the valves open too far.  I have an idea that this is a BS step, but I also haven't got the balls to try it out, so I will tell you to do it too.

I have done many many sets of cams this way.  I have actually done two heads this way too, when customers were too cheap to pay for a whole timing belt/water pump job.

There used to be a link at Pro Street Online that had a pictoral of this(basically) but its not really there, and only the text, no pictures now.
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Eric_Wang

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 08:34:22 am »
Quote
Then pull the valve cover and pull ONE CAM AT A TIME.    You pull one gear off, hold the cam gear up with a long bungee chord to the hood.  This way the tension stays on the belt and nothing can slip or go out of time.  Once the gear is held up with a bungee chord and off the end of the cam, you take the cam out. and to make it easier so that the tension of the belt doesn't pull the gears togeather, I slide a short piece of old timing belt between the gears.  It fits perfectly into one of the gears and flat against the other.  Works like a charm.

That sounds like everything i have done so far. I just stopped because now im paranoid if the balance shaft is out of alignment, but now am gonna get back to it. The only thing question i have now is do you have to bleed the lifters? Im not quite sure on why as because i got the exhaust cam in there without having any problem with the rockers?
Thanks for your help too john, really appreciate it :)
-1995 Eagle talon TSI AWD
2GB Conversion - Strut Bar - Tein Basic Coilovers - FMIC - Greddy BOV - Big EVO III 16G - Injen Intake - 550cc Injectors - Ported 02 housing - FP Exhaust Manifold - 3" Exhaust & DP - MBC - SAFC

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 09:13:34 am »
Well, if you have the whole front of the engine off, you can just line up the marks on the bshafts.  If they are stilll covered up, you will have to pull it all apart to check.

If you kept upward tension on the cam gears and had the belt attached to the gears, it shouldn't have jumped on you but unless you are sure, you will have to pull it apart.

oh and about the lifters, its not really that you have to bleed them for the cams to go in, they will go back on(snug them down evenly and slowly) but if you don't let them sit for a couple of hours, you run the risk of the valves hitting the pistons when you fire it up because the lifters will expand with no cam and rocker pushing on them.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 09:15:14 am by John Hartman »
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods

Offline Eric_Wang

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2010, 01:29:39 pm »
Im pretty certain i had good tension all the way thru this process. I waited for about 2.5 hours before firing it up. It started up no problem and was running for a good 5 mins before i shut her off.

Im not sure if its me paying more attention because of installing the cams but there seems to be a small ticking sound. Its not loud enough that you can hear it sitting in the car. But definally noticeable IMO when standing in front of the car with the hood up. Started up my buddies supra and it had the same ticking sound and he said it was normal, im just wondering if having bigger cams just made the noise more noticeable for me? I did use assembly lube on all the lobes and such, so just wondering if this is normal or...?

Last question, still paranoid about this now because of Brett LOL :P jk jk but IF the balance shaft is out of alignment would i notice it when starting it up and having it running with the first 5 mins? Or is this something that will blow up on me 100km down the road?

Thanks for the help John and Brett :) Now i can say ive done the Camshafts in my car before lol :P
-1995 Eagle talon TSI AWD
2GB Conversion - Strut Bar - Tein Basic Coilovers - FMIC - Greddy BOV - Big EVO III 16G - Injen Intake - 550cc Injectors - Ported 02 housing - FP Exhaust Manifold - 3" Exhaust & DP - MBC - SAFC

Offline John Hartman

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Re: Camshaft Install
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2010, 02:44:08 pm »
no, it will just seem more vibraty at around 3000rpms or so.

Did you torque the cam caps properly?

did you prelube the cam bearing surfaces with assembly lube?

did you spin it over with the ECU fuse pulled to make sure it got oil pressure before you started it?

Did you MAKE DAMN SURE you got all the caps in the correct order, facing the right way?  If one is backwards, or on the wrong cam, or even the right cam but in one position out, its dead.  If it takes out that bearing surface, you need another head.

If all this is done correctly, the lifters may tick a bit more till they are properly oiled and filled.

Doing cams is the correct time to put in new lifters tho  ;)
91 Eagle Talon TSi 5spd awd.  GT-12, TriFlow Cams, 850s, Tial, JIC, Jackal, sticky rubber.
86 Merkur XR4Ti 5spd, rwd, turbo, 91,381km.  Original paint, heated leather. intercooled, big VAM, Full 3" exhaust, Cossie sway bar, 16" tires.
06 Mazdaspeed6 6spd awd, DISI turbo, heated leather HIDs, Corksport, Cobb, Konig, Centric...
2018 VW Golf Alltrack turbo Tornado Red, 6mt, some free mods