Transmission problems 5spd

[Artem Goloubov]

Friend of mine has a '93 2.0L NT. Couple of days ago he was driving the car and tried shifting into natural gear, but the gear was stuck in 2nd and wouldn’t move into any gear when pressing the clutch.

I've looked at the car, It shifts fine when the car is not running, however it won't shift when running. I've checked master cylinder and it's full with fluid, I've checked the salve cylinder and it doesn't leak, and appears to move all the way when pressing clutch pedal.

I've adjusted the clutch pedal rod all the way out, that didn't make any difference. When I tried starting the car in gear it acts normally and drives in the gear it's in.

I am going to bleed the line make sure there is no Air. Transmission will be removed if bleeding is not successful, however at this point I am not sure what else might cause the problem I've described above.

I appreciate any suggestions, Art

PS: Tranny has brand new MTL Redline oil.

[John Hartman]

measure how far your slave cylinder moves when you push the clutch on your car.  Then do the same on his and see.

If its moving as far as yours, then the hydraulic part and the mechanical part on that side of things is ok.

You have a 2.0nt dont you?

[Artem Goloubov]

measure how far your slave cylinder moves when you push the clutch on your car.  Then do the same on his and see.

If its moving as far as yours, then the hydraulic part and the mechanical part on that side of things is ok.

You have a 2.0nt dont you?

NT is sold. looking for AWD

But anyways, I did some trouble shooting today. I've started the car in the first gear with clutch pressed in, it started to jerk (usual when the car is in gear but without the clutch in) than after asplit second started and was idling fine :shock:

I am keept the clutch in and tried every gear, everything shifts fine, than I started to let the clutch out slowly in first gear and car started to move. I got all excited thinking I fixed the problem somehow, switch to neatural, let the clutch out and it won't shift anymore, whatever I do.

So I figure there is something wrong with the clutch disk, maybe one of the springs fell out and is holding the clutch engaged.

Will proceed will tranny removal on Thursday

[Mike Schmid]

I'll bet the clutch isn't disengaging properly.  Stop, while it's running in gear with the shifter in first, no brakes and see if it starts creeping along.

[Artem Goloubov]

What would cause the clutch not release, besides slave falure?

I am guessing one of the springs fell out, but that's just a guess.

[Graeme Shaw]

It shifts fine when not running but won't shift when it is?


I ran in to a similar car like this.  Couldn't shift in to first or reverse while the car was started without JAMMING it in.  The crank was pushing on the clutch, not allowing it to fully disengage.

Crankwalk.

[Martin Raska]

Graeme, I'm not so sure the crank pushing on the clutch not allowing it to disengage would be the case, since the flywheel and pressure plate are mouted rigidly to the crank, and although the disk sits in between and would be affected by movement of the crank to a minor degree, we are still talking about movement in the magnitude of low 10's of thousandths of an inch for crankwalk, and the friction material is reasonably flexible on the thin mounting to the central hub.  That, and the disk slides on to the splines of the transmission input shaft and is not fixed rigidly in that place, so is free to move (assuming it's not siezed somehow) with the flywheel and pressure plate longditudanal.  Either way, siezed or not, I can't see the minor increase in friction having much, if any effect on shifting.  Maybe I'm visualizing things wrong  though, sometimes that happens.

[Graeme Shaw]

I'm no mechanic, and it was explained to me fairly haphazardly by our shop tech head, but that's basically how he explained it to me.

But hey, what do I know.  When it comes to things that get my hands greasy, I'm the ubern00b.

[Artem Goloubov]

I'll try to move the crank pulley see if it moves

[Mike Schmid]

With regards to crankwalk the crank would be pushing on the clutch or something.  Rather the other way around.

Think about it.  The TO bearing puts a force on the clutch's diaphagm spring to release the pressure.  The force of this also acts on the crank.  Usually the crank stays put and supports the clutch, if the thrust bearings on the crank are fubar the crank will move and the clutch will move away from the tranny along with it.  If the clutch moves away from the TO bearing then the spring won't get compressed far enough to fully release the clutch.  

For a simplified example put a pen spring on the side of a small wooden block or something and try and compress the spring, if the little block or whatever slides away the spring won't compress.

Also, a leak in the slave or master cylinder will cause loss of slave travel.  A worn pivot ball will move the TO bearing away from the clutch also possibly causing incomplete disengagement.

[Artem Goloubov]

So I pulled out transmission and the clutch today, and found this:




The springs fell of the clutch disk and were jammed between the disk and pressure plate, just like I thought. . My main questions are:

1. I know that springs do fall out, but why?

2. This car is 1993 for some strange reason it's got a 6 BOLT engine, perchaps an engine  swap, so should I get 6 BOLT clutch or just a clutch for 1993 NT? Called Canadian Tire and they said the 91 and 93 Clutch disk have different part number.

Art

[John Hartman]

k, first off, CANADIAN TIRE?!?!?!  are you shittin me??  

and yea it sounded like a broken bit inside if the hydraulic system was good.  I had another car that did this.

Get the correct clutch for the car.  Also, if you are just going for a replacement clutch for the NT car, you can get a cheap jobber one, at like Napa or such.  Even for my 91 AWD it was only a bit over $200.

[Artem Goloubov]

I am getting clutch from Cad Tire Dynomax and it's $170.00 disk Plate and bearing, so that's pretty good.